| Build a Better Battery !()!()!()!()! |
| After my battery went south after its normal abysmal Picturebook battery lifespan of 64 charge cycles, I decided to try something else besides dumping upwards of a C-Note for a replacement. After unsealing the case and removing the old (US18650GR) cells, I replaced them with some 18650S cells that I extracted from a croaked Gateway's battery package. Not only do these cells have many miles on them, (easily over 150 cycles) they still perform as well as the PB battery did when it was new! I ordered a set of 8 of these cells (US18650S) from ebay for $24.98 (new) Both types of cells are rated at 1300-1600mAH depending on who you get the specs from, but I highly recommend this technique as an alternative to buying a new battery! Panasonic also makes these cells and they are rated at 1800mAH, so I might try a set of those too. I am considering putting together some docs and posting them on C1MV lies if anyone is interested. --Dave |
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I've been looking for these batteries for awhile, usually they're only available in large quantities from whole salers. When I'd checked on Ebay before, they weren't listed. This is definitely the way to go if you're trying to refurb you battery. I have some pics of the pre-modded BP51 battery pack if you need any images for your tutorial. Let us know when you put it up. I'll order some of these batteries today. Thanks.
If anyone is interested, this Japanese site has some pics on the internals of the batteries (just so you know what to expect if you go for the refurb option)(translated through babelfish): http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http://www.ah.wakwak.com/~v-club/sbatte.html http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http://www.ah.wakwak.com/~v-club/lbatte.html
Dave, In what model of battery pack did you replace the batteries? I was wondering if the circuitry in a BP51 could be used to create a BP54 (or more) with a bunch of batteries. I know it depends on the circuitry's maximum input voltage, but Sony may be using the same circuitry and just housing the various packs in different size containers (BP51, BP52, BP54)...would be interesting to find this out and make a custom BP58 or BP516 :) especially with all of those left-over batteries I'm going to have from Ebay.
Battery pack dies not only from life of cells. It happens by blow fuse, and this part is really hard to get it anyway. Li-ion cell is Explosive objects with wrong power supply, so be careful to handling it. Actually PCGA-BP51A, 52A, 54A using same Li-ion cells as Sony NP-950, which battery pack for Handycam TRV series. Pack contains 6 celles and price is almost half from BP52A.
Its a BP-51 stocker capacity -- I don't know about the 54's circuitry, but I would imagine that it would be the same, both packs are the same voltage. (at least I'm pretty sure they are...better check on that) Anyways, the board in the BP-51 says: SONY LIP3040 wait, there's another number here too, just a second.... OK it's uh,... 1-677-515-11 looks kind of like BIOS rev maybe. I wonder if there's a way to reset the charge cycle count? Maybe if I just... whoops! oh sh... never mind. --Dave
Just got in the Panasonic CGR18650 cells, (1800mAh per cell compared to the 1400-1600mAh stock Sony US18650CGR's) I soldered 'em up and resealed the case. It's taking a charge so I ain't fried nothing yet thank God. Stay tuned for the final performance data and keep your fingers crossed! I'll keep my fire extinguisher on standby! This could be big (hopefully not a 4 alarmer...) Erik, if this thing works, then yes, I might be interested in your pictures, you'll get credit for them plus 50 percent of the royalties and endorsements that are sure to come our way. I gotta go now, Underwriter's Laboratories is pounding on my front door. --Dave Interesting note: The "remaining capacity" on the LongRun power mgr hasn't changed at all through all of these transplants, revealing it to be nothing more than a function of the charge cycle counter, which has just picked up where it left off at 65 cycles. What a joke.
I don't have any specific final data ready, but rest assured, the Panasonic cells outperform the Sony's by about a million miles! Stay tuned! I'll let you know when the info is posted! In the meantime, let me know if you have any used BP-5x's you'd like to sell! --Dave
or a double?
Thanks for your attention. I fear that I may have started something that could cost someone his picturebook at best, and people's lives at worst. I know nothing about Lithium-Ion hazards except that they do exist, and are very unpleasant. My excitement about the Panasonic cell's superiority got the better of me and I started blabbering here without considering the inherent risks I am inadvertently endorsing, not to mention those I am taking myself. These cells have explosive properties and you shouldn't be stupidly soldering around in there just to save a couple of hundred bucks. Please, someone with some actual experience post something here that confirms my irresponsibility and ignorance. Above all, if you must proceed in this territory, please do so soberly and with proper fire and chemical handling equipment in place. If you are unsure about what I mean by that, there you go. --Dave Next Week: How to make your own acetylene-fired central heating system from common automotive products!
Dave, Thanks for the disclaimer and the warning. You're right, Lithium-Ion cells can be very nasty, so go here for a Lithium-Ion safety data sheet. Section 3 and below details what can happen and what to do about it: http://data.energizer.com/datasheets/psds/lithiumion.htm Given those precautions, how goes the project? Do you still have all of your body parts, eyesight and internal organs? How is the Picturebook holding up? Any battery life statistics? Email me if you prefer to discuss this off the forum.
Lasts 2 to 2.3 hours with the screen on full bright and the CPU at 733mHz with the camera on. No real definitive data available yet, but it'll come. Only side effect I've noticed so far is the battery meter--full charge is reached at 91 percent. Oh, and one more thing: this prosthetic hand is a bitch to type with. --Dave
I received my batteries via Ebay today. Replaced old cells with new ones. I'm charging the new ones, and then I'll do some tests. Do a search on Ebay for 'US18650' I got eight cells for about $30. They were originally cell phone battery packs which I had to CAREFULLY disassemble. I found a site that covers this process (different computer, but same battery pack--BP51): http://www.lemley.net/pcga-bp51/ I removed the old cells one by one (CAREFULLY breaking the tiny soldered bond with a sharp blade, rather than desoldering) and used the existing terminals from the circuit board in the battery. The person at the above webpage, removed the terminals and resoldered them with wire...more work than necessary if you're careful. Right now my new cells are simply kept together by the battery case. I have not resoldered anything yet (I wanted to test if it would work before going through the hassle and possible danger of burning the cells with my not-so-great soldering skills).
I just found this source for batteries online. Might be good for someone attempting this modification: http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=3430 Dave, where did you get your Panasonic cells?
Not a problem Here's where I ordered my Panasonics from. This is a great company to deal with by the way, and they provide tack welding free of charge. http://www.sabahoceanic.com/lithium.html I sent along the following to let 'em know how I wanted them tacked: (+)---(-)weld(+)---(-)weld(+)---(-) I recommend specifying long strips at the ends, something I neglected to do. So here's the way I'd send it: (2"lead)(+)---(-)weld(+)---(-)weld(+)---(-)(2"lead) --Dave
My new cells completely charged last night. I pulled the AC on my C1XS and had Batteryscope and the Date and Time app in WinXP running (among several other WinXP services that load at startup-as well as SmartCapture Ready) with screen dimmed. Whereas with the old cells I was getting 5-10 minutes of activity before a hard shutdown, with no opportunity to save my work (let alone go into auto-standby or auto-hibernate.) With the new cells I got 45 minutes of activity before going into auto-standby at 6 percent of battery capacity. So it's am unqualified success! The C1XS was never renowned for it's power usage, but at least I can use the machine outside without worrying about it cutting out on me unexpectedly. Now I just need to find something to do with the 5 extra cells that I have. Thanks to Dave for all of the info and inspiration.
Glad things worked out for you--didja ever solder them cells in? I found a great deal of performance difference once the things are hard connected, but if it's working for you, than what the hell? Keep your eye(s) peeled for depleted Sony BP's, I know I am. A quad or a double would be pretty cool, but even an extra 51 would be nice to have. ...or perhaps I should put all this aside for a while and spend some time with my wife... nah. --Dave
I still haven't soldered anything. I switched out the first set of new cells that I got which were Sony type US18650S STG for some Sony type US18650S GR to see if there was any performance difference. I couldn't find any data on the differences between these two types of cells. I assume the GRs are graphite anodes, but I don't know how the STGs are different if at all. I seemed to get a little more operational time out of the GRs, but not radically different. They're all the same color and came from the same type of battery packs, so maybe the difference is not much, though I'm hesitant to mix types and create a bomb... As you experienced, the Charge Cycle count(79), Full Charge Capacity (19.51), and Battery Wear (97 percent) all remained unchanged through all of these cell replacements (those numbers originated from the old cells). I took the cells out again, and am letting the battery circuit board sit for 24 hours unpowered in the hopes that the chips will lose any residual charge and reset themselves or forget their data. I didn't see a specific mechanism on the board to act as a reset, but maybe the pro refurbishers just change out the circuit boards or replace a specific chip to reset the boards. I wonder if a reverse polarity wouldn't reset them also, but, again, I don't want things to burn out or blow up...Anyway, I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for dead batteries, especially a BP52. They appear on Ebay from time to time, but you never know if they died from bad cells or if the circuitry crapped out. It would be best to get them from someone who experienced increasingly poor performance, so you could be somewhat sure that it was the cells and not the circuit board..
So I removed the cells from the rebuilt BP51 battery and let the circuit board sit unpowered for 24 hours. When I replaced the cells, my Charge Cycle counter is now at 0, Full Charge Capacity is at 19.98Wh and Battery Wear says 100 percent. So the battery is like new. I'm betting it could sit for less than 24 hours, but that seemed like a nice round number. Now to solder everything permanently and seal up the battery case. I paid $30 for 8 cells, and used three of them in my BP51, so that's roughly $3.75 per cell or $11.25 for a new battery. Eat your heart out Sony.
While I was congratulating myself in my last post, let me post an addendum. All the data is as described in the last post, but after one discharge and a recharge of the battery, my Charge Cycle counter still reads 'zero', when I would expect it to display 'one'. So I'm going to run some discharge/charge cycles to see if the counter is working at all or if it's no longer capable of making the count. I suppose an inaccurate count is better than no count at all, so don't discharge your battery circuit boards until I get more data.
This post is to confirm that everything is working properly. I've run the battery through five charge cycles now. The counter is readin four, so I guess the first one is considered zero by the software. Everything else is working properly and the new cells continue to take and hold a charge. Battery life varies substantially, depending on what I'm doing. Undimmed screen and camera turned on with a full screen display (Using IuVCR) results in about 30 minute battery life on my C1XS runninf WinXP. I get about an hour with MP3 playback and screen turned off.
I was wondering if anyone has a method for reconditioning the batteries that get the memory effect. The problem is that the computer turns itself off when battery power is below a certain point. Which means the battery never drains 100 So, each time you use it, you go back to say 95 f where you were before. After a while, you end up with only 10 minutes of battery! In the past, with cell-phones, I found that if I spend some time waiting, using till it turns off, waiting, using, waiting till it turns off, etc. I tend to drain the 'memory effect.' What is needed is a battery reconditioner, that forcefully drains the battery 100 You'd get much better battery performance out of it... Still, higher performance batteries are tempting...
I was wondering if anyone has a method for reconditioning the batteries that get the memory effect. The problem is that the computer turns itself off when battery power is below a certain point. Which means the battery never drains 100 So, each time you use it, you go back to say 95 f where you were before. After a while, you end up with only 10 minutes of battery! In the past, with cell-phones, I found that if I spend some time waiting, using till it turns off, waiting, using, waiting till it turns off, etc. I tend to drain the 'memory effect.' What is needed is a battery reconditioner, that forcefully drains the battery 100 You'd get much better battery performance out of it... Still, higher performance batteries are tempting...
Hey all you battery snarfing freakazoids out there! Listen to this total B.S. from Mitch Anderson, CEO of Laptops for Less! I don't know how sales are going for him, but he could always fall back on his ability to shovel it in thicker than anyone I've ever seen before! Even myself! Gee, I wonder if brand new replacement battery packs are part of his business! Here's an excerpt, better get your waders on first! Don't say I didn't warn you! _________________________________________________________ We asses(sic, but a good sic!) that refurbishing Lithium-Ion batteries can not(sic) be accomplished, or the refurbishing can not(sic) be done properly, for the following reasons: For these batteries to charge and discharge correctly, they all have to have the same internal impedance (if your DC theory is bit rusty, impedance is a fancy word for resistance, generally used for pulsating or AC current). For this reason manufacturers go trough(sic) extensive cell testing to match together thousands of cells with the same impedance. Once they have - let’s say - a lot of 10000 pieces all at 0.2 Ohms, they will design a charging circuit that is specially adjusted for that specific lot. Then they will assemble the battery packs and study the next lot that might be tested at 0.3 Ohms. The charging circuit will need to be adjusted again, for the different impedance. ____________________________________________________________ If nothing else, you gotta respect his command of Ohm's Law! I know I'm ain't exactly a genius myself, but guys like this just make me (sic) --Dave What? You want more? Hookay... http://www.laptopsforless.com/norefurbs.html
One approach might be to run the laptop, and when the battery is drained make sure it goes into standy as opposed to hibernate. Then leave it in standby until the battery drains as much as possible. Look in your Power Options settings in Control Panel and set your machine to standby at one percent instead of 10 percent. I don't know if this is really a solution, but maybe it will work. I'm not sure of the Lithium-Ion memory effect either. I know NiCads were notorious for this, but I'm not sure how NiMHs and LiIons work...
Yeah, I tried Z.D.'s BatteryMark a while back on a tired old 8 cell Latitude Li pack, and it didn't help much...other than using up 10 charge cycles. Better off just doing like Erik says, and don't slam them with these progs. --Dave Post a message in this thread.As opposed to a new Main message which is done from the Main screen. |